![]() ![]() > it is possible that iraq could move toward civil war. > there's been yet another spasm of violence in iraq. The new governing council, 140,000 american troops, and a war that really had just begun. i knew the agency made the assessment that there were about there were a lot of big things the first 48 hours. ![]() > but this is a big one, right? > there were a lot of big things that first five days. this wasn't the only thing on my list of things to do the first five days i was there. you know, i was working 20 hours a day in that period, as well. > you don't remember these guys coming in and saying, "this is 30,000 to 50,000 people, and my god, what are you doing?" > i just. i just don't remember it, honestly don't remember it. > he may have come in and spoken to me at great length about it. and the number's closer to 50 than it is 30." > narrator: ambassador bremer says he does not recall the conversation with general garner and the cia officer. this is what i'm doing." > and so i said, "well, charlie, what do you think?" and to the best of my memory, charlie said, "well, if you do this, you're going to drive 30,000 to 50,000 ba'athists underground by nightfall. and finally, bremer says, "look, i have my orders. i'm not asking for your advice."Īnd they argue a bit more. ![]() let us digest this thing, and then let us recommend some changes to you and come back here, and we'll get on the phone with rumsfeld to see if we can't soften this a bit." > and bremer kind of says, "look, you don't understand. and i said, "you know, this is too deep." i said, "give charlie and i about 45 minutes to an hour. > so we went in and we talked to ambassador bremer for a few minutes. > i walked down, and the cia guy, a great guy, was coming across the hall, and i said, "hey, charlie, have you read the de-ba'athification?" and he said, "yeah, that's why i'm here." i said, "well, let's go in and talk to the ambassador." > narrator: garner was worried that bremer seemed not to understand how things worked in iraq. > and i think one thing bremer found out that day was that he had no command over the military.Īround iraq. > narrator: and so ended paul bremer's first day in iraq. there just is not sufficient justification to shoot somebody because they're carrying a computer out of the old ministry of education building. > well, of course, it's against our code of honor. > narrator: military commanders refused to go along with bremer's idea. > it wasn't very smart to do because somebody on the staff immediately told the press that i had suggested shooting the looters, and we had a problem. > his point was you only needed to shoot a few of them to make that point and the looting would stop. > i did one thing that wasn't very smart, which was suggest to the staff meeting that i thought we should shoot the looters, that our military should have authority to shoot the looters, which they did not have at that time. (car horns honking) (men exclaiming) > smith: by mid-2014, baghdadi and jolani were bitter rivals.> narrator: as they drove into the city, bremer made a decision and promptly announced it to his new staff. ![]() they can't fix the flat tires and move around and shoot people if they don't have cash. every few hours, the trucks get flat tires. and the moment that the commanders don't have cash to pay the gunmen beneath them, those gunmen are gone within the day. and we want, isis want more of that cash. > when the isis guys would argue with the jabhat al nusra men, they'd go, "it's all about money- it's all about money." like, jabhat al nusra's taking all the cash. they would take me back to my cell and they would say, "you christian, you liar, tomorrow night is going to be worse." three days, they've given me three days to live, three days! > smith: during his time in captivity, padnos- who shared a cell with isis fighters captured by nusra- learned about the rivalry between jolani and baghdadi. and you don't know when it's going to stop, you don't know i really didn't think i could survive being tortured. and when you were being beaten by guys that identified themselves as jabhat al nusra, ere were you? did you know? > i was in the basement of a building in aleppo. he says he was subjected to torture and frequent beatings. > smith: padnos had been a hostage for 22 months. "do you intend to attack the regime from the left flank or the right flank?" or, "what are your demands?" and, you know, i'm, like, "well, how do you treat your own people?" my name is peter theo curtis, today's date is july 18. > all the guards were outside watching their leader being interviewed on al jazeera, and i'm, like, "well, i wonder what any of those media people were asking jolani about their american prisoner." but instead they were asking, like, strategic questions. smith: a frlance reporter from vermont, theo padnos, listened to that interview from a nusra prison cell where he was being held. ![]()
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